As I understand it. We still need a healthy signal going into this box. That is to say, a signal where the sound in the air going into the microphone is loud enough to create a signal over the noise floor but not high enough to smash the physical metals and membranes at each other so they clip the signal at the analog stage. What 32 bit float is essentially doing is removing a necessity to set a floor and ceiling to in the Analog to digital conversion. Or rather. It records the full range in high enough bitrate that you can safely convert it to 24 or 16 bit with enough accuracy in post at whatever level you set there. And it does so with enough headroom and floor-accuracy to cover most microphones dynamic range that you can simulate a gain-knob at playback. What it does record with the sound is a separate volume control level signal that is applied during playback and that is what we can control in post when it comes to gain. In playback that gain is applied and the 32 bit samples are converted to whatever the bitrate is for the playback device. What I am getting at is that the examples I see about what the 32bit float can do is impressive, but probably mis-representing what is actually being done back-stage in the box and in post. For those examples, the signal being recorded were all in a healthy rather constant level. Then the virtual knob turns it down or up for playback conversion. It is essentially like having a decently produced CD and showing that you can use a volume-knob on the cd-player to set the sound-level. What would be more interesting is if one would record something with a signal that is a bit too quiet and something a bit too loud with and try to save the sound during the mix in post. Because it sounds a bit too much like Zoom and others want me to think I can hook up a mic that needs phantom power, forget to give it phantom power and then I can recover that miniscule sound in post no problem.
Impressive overview. And you are right, you still need to send a loud enough signal from your mic. The benefit of 32bit float is mostly that you can essentially forget to set the correct gain on the audio recorder and still be fine because of the level of detail you get with 32bit float. I have never misunderstood the marketing, I don't think they are saying you can whisper into the mic and be fine, and in that regard the comparison with RAW photography kinda holds true: even with RAW photos you need there to be enough light for a good quality photo even though the dynamic range is higher and you can possibly recover more in post.
32-bit floating is the RAW in photography. Have been using the F6 for 6 months now. Tips: DON'T plug the F6 to wall socket using Phone Charger, the NOISE is really LOUD. Just use Power Bank.
Interesting tip you got there. Was this just by plugging it in and connecting a mic or did you have anything else connected to it additionally? Personally, I most often use it connected to my MacBook and that provides power (and I can use it as an audio interface or SD Card reader easily). Lastly: I love the F6. Sometimes I wish I would not love it as much (it's one more thing to worry about having to run it on and hit record and stuff)… but it's incredible to work with and just know that my audio will be great!
@@ChrisSpiegl just plugging it to the wall power socket, when you turn on the knob on any channel, the noise will be VERY LOUD. Using powerbank doesn't introduce noise at all. Using powerbank while it's charging then plug the powerbank to the Zoom F6 introduce lower noise but still very noticable.
In photography, modern cameras record to a 16bit per channel RAW (there's also more subtle differences that the RAW contains a dump of the sensor data, a preview jpeg, and metadata of the exposure settings). There are 32bit float image files, that use multiple exposures merged to a HDR image.
@@ChrisSpiegl I'm getting my F6 for Christmas, main use will be nature and ambience recording, so noiseless/quiet recording. Will shout out if anything particular comes to mind. Thanks.
I’ve just got the F6 after using the 24 bit H5 for a couple of years and I really like recording or more importantly processing 32 bit float. Nice summary of it, thank you 👍
Thanks, I appreciate your comment. Was it also kinda strange for you to get to know how the Track Knobs work on the F6 vs the H5? For me it was a learning curve… probably something to make a video about (especially for those cases when you select 24Bit mode on the F6 and also have Trim to worry about 🙈).
@@ChrisSpiegl ...all my experience with the F6 and 32 bit float has been an eye and ear opener, I’m just an amateur trying to capture good audio and this has just been a gift. Liked and subbed and look forward to more 👍
@@soundhobo I know exactly what you are talking about. It's damn incredible when you hear the 32bit float file pulled up from nothing (or down from clipped). So much flexibility and it's really a good feeling to know that you're set whatever settings you make. I just checked out your creations and think you do some wonderful shots and I like that you share them with the world. What are your plans for the Zoom F6 there? I saw mostly nature shots with music and really cool drone material. Are you planning to do voice overs? Or is it for something completely different?
@@ChrisSpiegl ...voice overs are definitely on the cards but that of course could be done with the H5. I just want to explore the world of audio for its own sake really, so it is as you say “something different”. I wanted to have more confidence in capturing sounds and then processing them 👍
You said, when the gain is higher you capture more detail, the same I heard in another podcast. When the gain is too low, you only capture let's say 8 bit of dynamic. You can boost it in post without noise, but the missing detail is gone so the 32bit "don't care about gain" is a myth, isn't it? You should set your gain right with 32bit recorders, too?
I am trying to get my hand on some zoom f6 or tentacle audio files to see if it is feasible for my workflow.. Do you have any example files on hand i can download? The zoom f6 + tentacle are both on my radar!
As far as I know the Shure SM7B works great with the F6 - though I have not tested it out. But I think ruclips.net/user/RebelTech1990 probalby has some info about that since he has both the mic and the F6 recorder.
Your explanation further confirmed my understanding of 32bit floating. However my F8 don't have this feature, I usually do dual recording instead, do you think I should also turn the limiter on or it's unnecessary? Thanks
Great video as always. Do you know if when you pan hard left and hard right with the Zoom F6 whether it is a destructive modification or does it only affect the headphone mix output. The reason I ask is that I like to play around with the panning in post. Thanks again.
If you want to play around with it in post, then I would use the routing for what you are trying to do. Justin (@Rebel Tech) has a great video about that: ruclips.net/video/MP-gKMDUsTg/видео.html
Very nicely done, Thank you. This may sound like I'm crazy but bear with me. Is there just one form of 32 bit float? - What led me to the question is you mentioned the Zoom F8 uses dual A/D converters per XLR input. Now the Zoom F2 only has a 3.5mm input but offers 32 bit recording and it sells in the UK (with Bluetooth) for only £179. So is the circuitry different? (apart from no XLR input) does it use dual A/D converters? Is the quality the same? - If you have time to answer, that would be great, Thanks, Peter.
Hi Peter, as far as I am aware there are different implementations of 32 bit float and the A/D converters. The Dual A/D Converters of the Zoom F6 are something quite special from all I know and the Zoom F2 does not have the same offering. The same goes for the Tentacle Track E (also doe snot have Dual A/D Converters). The F2 however still sounds great from all the tests I have seen though.
Gain still needs to be set imho. It affects noise quantity in a recording and that cannot be removed easily later. Again what is recorded and where has large effects on these things too. It's still true that the lowest gain to get the sound you need is best. Gain levels can be increased in post without any *more* noise being created. Not so during original recording where increased Gain can allow much more noise into the recording. Yet 32float does mostly remove the issue of clipping during recording.
Question. When using 32- bit float it’s said you don’t really have to worry about setting your gain because you can always adjust it in post. However, with 32-bit float you have over -700 db capacity and over +700 db capacity. How do you prevent the noise when increasing the really low audio levels in post since it picks up a lot of room noise?
Onkel Spiegl, it took me a minute to digest all those technical information. its a loooooot . but very useful. i would love to see an actual test on the field just so we can have a better visual understanding.
When I lower the gain in either Audacity 3.0.2 (confirmed can edit 32bit float) or AudioDirector 11, it just flattens all the peaks to one equal level. Using a Rode VideoMic Pro+ with a Zoom F2 BT. I specifically got this combo since I record very loud concerts. Any suggestions? I see in your video you just adjust the gain and it works as expected. Thank you!
That sounds like you are over driving the microphone so it’s already clipping Inside the mic and then that signal is recorded to the 32bit file. Try lowering the gain in the VideoMic Pro+ and maybe additionally engage the -20db pad and then as a third possibility also engage the safety track so you have another even less loud channel. Let me know if this does help and we can look into if further if it does not. 👍
@@ChrisSpiegl Thank you for the reply. My Rode mic was set to 0db. For loud shows I'll start recording at the -10db and enabling the backup track, but it's strange that the rode mic clipped when the onboard camera mic handled the audio fine. Maybe it auto lowered the gain. I'm new to this but it's strange that a $300 mic couldn't handle a loud concert. The specs say it can handle 133db. I was thinking maybe my onboard audio card when editing in post? Both editing softwares I'm using recognize the file type as 32bit float and 48k hz. This is a tricky one since there are so many possibilities. Thank you for any ideas!
@@taylorkirk74 you’re welcome. The issue with this mic is that it is very much prone to clipping internally. If you bring it up close to your mouth for example you immediately see the red clipping thing coming on. The 133dB range may very well be in combination with the -10 or -20 db pad enabled. And please kite the gain ring does not do much in terms of the clipping.
If you record in 32b float (as I always do), once you're in the ballpark of where your levels should be at, would it be "safe" to save those new leveled files to 24 bit for use in the rest of the post-processing chain? I've always been "worried" that maybe, even if the EQ/Comp/Limiter would maybe only affect maximum 12-18 dB changes, maybe I still need those source 32 bit float in all the post-process until I bounce to a final product (44.1 at 16 or 24 if FLAC or whatever lossless)
I may not be the best to answer this as I do not necessarily have all the depth knowledge here. But I personally would take the 32bit float file and normalize/loudness normalize into a 24bit range and work with that in the workflow from there onward. However, there is no real reason not to work with 32bit float files in post processing since that is just a means of giving the programs more room to play with. Again, just my understanding, which may be wrong.
As I understand it. We still need a healthy signal going into this box. That is to say, a signal where the sound in the air going into the microphone is loud enough to create a signal over the noise floor but not high enough to smash the physical metals and membranes at each other so they clip the signal at the analog stage. What 32 bit float is essentially doing is removing a necessity to set a floor and ceiling to in the Analog to digital conversion. Or rather. It records the full range in high enough bitrate that you can safely convert it to 24 or 16 bit with enough accuracy in post at whatever level you set there. And it does so with enough headroom and floor-accuracy to cover most microphones dynamic range that you can simulate a gain-knob at playback. What it does record with the sound is a separate volume control level signal that is applied during playback and that is what we can control in post when it comes to gain. In playback that gain is applied and the 32 bit samples are converted to whatever the bitrate is for the playback device.
What I am getting at is that the examples I see about what the 32bit float can do is impressive, but probably mis-representing what is actually being done back-stage in the box and in post. For those examples, the signal being recorded were all in a healthy rather constant level. Then the virtual knob turns it down or up for playback conversion. It is essentially like having a decently produced CD and showing that you can use a volume-knob on the cd-player to set the sound-level. What would be more interesting is if one would record something with a signal that is a bit too quiet and something a bit too loud with and try to save the sound during the mix in post. Because it sounds a bit too much like Zoom and others want me to think I can hook up a mic that needs phantom power, forget to give it phantom power and then I can recover that miniscule sound in post no problem.
Impressive overview. And you are right, you still need to send a loud enough signal from your mic. The benefit of 32bit float is mostly that you can essentially forget to set the correct gain on the audio recorder and still be fine because of the level of detail you get with 32bit float.
I have never misunderstood the marketing, I don't think they are saying you can whisper into the mic and be fine, and in that regard the comparison with RAW photography kinda holds true: even with RAW photos you need there to be enough light for a good quality photo even though the dynamic range is higher and you can possibly recover more in post.
32-bit floating is the RAW in photography. Have been using the F6 for 6 months now. Tips: DON'T plug the F6 to wall socket using Phone Charger, the NOISE is really LOUD. Just use Power Bank.
Interesting tip you got there. Was this just by plugging it in and connecting a mic or did you have anything else connected to it additionally?
Personally, I most often use it connected to my MacBook and that provides power (and I can use it as an audio interface or SD Card reader easily).
Lastly: I love the F6. Sometimes I wish I would not love it as much (it's one more thing to worry about having to run it on and hit record and stuff)… but it's incredible to work with and just know that my audio will be great!
@@ChrisSpiegl just plugging it to the wall power socket, when you turn on the knob on any channel, the noise will be VERY LOUD. Using powerbank doesn't introduce noise at all. Using powerbank while it's charging then plug the powerbank to the Zoom F6 introduce lower noise but still very noticable.
@@yesayadanu Interesting, I mostly use mine connected to my MacBook for power and that works fine.
In photography, modern cameras record to a 16bit per channel RAW (there's also more subtle differences that the RAW contains a dump of the sensor data, a preview jpeg, and metadata of the exposure settings). There are 32bit float image files, that use multiple exposures merged to a HDR image.
Thanks for the video. It help me understand the advantages of 32-bit recording.
Thanks, I appreciate that 🌸.
Great explanation of bit depth and sample rates. Looking forward to more in this F6 series. Liked and sub'd.
Thank you. I’m working on more. So much todo though. 😅 anything in particular that interests you?
@@ChrisSpiegl I'm getting my F6 for Christmas, main use will be nature and ambience recording, so noiseless/quiet recording. Will shout out if anything particular comes to mind. Thanks.
@@marktaylor4277 That's awesome. Definitely a great gift to find under the tree. Happy recording. It's gonna blow your mind most likely 🌸.
I’ve just got the F6 after using the 24 bit H5 for a couple of years and I really like recording or more importantly processing 32 bit float. Nice summary of it, thank you 👍
Thanks, I appreciate your comment. Was it also kinda strange for you to get to know how the Track Knobs work on the F6 vs the H5? For me it was a learning curve… probably something to make a video about (especially for those cases when you select 24Bit mode on the F6 and also have Trim to worry about 🙈).
@@ChrisSpiegl ...all my experience with the F6 and 32 bit float has been an eye and ear opener, I’m just an amateur trying to capture good audio and this has just been a gift. Liked and subbed and look forward to more 👍
@@soundhobo I know exactly what you are talking about. It's damn incredible when you hear the 32bit float file pulled up from nothing (or down from clipped). So much flexibility and it's really a good feeling to know that you're set whatever settings you make.
I just checked out your creations and think you do some wonderful shots and I like that you share them with the world.
What are your plans for the Zoom F6 there? I saw mostly nature shots with music and really cool drone material. Are you planning to do voice overs? Or is it for something completely different?
@@ChrisSpiegl ...voice overs are definitely on the cards but that of course could be done with the H5. I just want to explore the world of audio for its own sake really, so it is as you say “something different”. I wanted to have more confidence in capturing sounds and then processing them 👍
@@soundhobo Great to always keep learning and improving! I'm looking forward to connecting someday.
Incredible video. Thank you for this information!
I appreciate that and you are welcome.
You said, when the gain is higher you capture more detail, the same I heard in another podcast. When the gain is too low, you only capture let's say 8 bit of dynamic. You can boost it in post without noise, but the missing detail is gone so the 32bit "don't care about gain" is a myth, isn't it? You should set your gain right with 32bit recorders, too?
It definitely helps to set the gain right or at least put it somewhere in the middle to have some space left and right.
I am trying to get my hand on some zoom f6 or tentacle audio files to see if it is feasible for my workflow.. Do you have any example files on hand i can download? The zoom f6 + tentacle are both on my radar!
Please let me know it’s compatibility with Shure SM7b
As far as I know the Shure SM7B works great with the F6 - though I have not tested it out. But I think ruclips.net/user/RebelTech1990 probalby has some info about that since he has both the mic and the F6 recorder.
Your explanation further confirmed my understanding of 32bit floating. However my F8 don't have this feature, I usually do dual recording instead, do you think I should also turn the limiter on or it's unnecessary? Thanks
Great video as always. Do you know if when you pan hard left and hard right with the Zoom F6 whether it is a destructive modification or does it only affect the headphone mix output. The reason I ask is that I like to play around with the panning in post. Thanks again.
If you want to play around with it in post, then I would use the routing for what you are trying to do. Justin (@Rebel Tech) has a great video about that: ruclips.net/video/MP-gKMDUsTg/видео.html
Very nicely done, Thank you. This may sound like I'm crazy but bear with me. Is there just one form of 32 bit float? - What led me to the question is you mentioned the Zoom F8 uses dual A/D converters per XLR input. Now the Zoom F2 only has a 3.5mm input but offers 32 bit recording and it sells in the UK (with Bluetooth) for only £179. So is the circuitry different? (apart from no XLR input) does it use dual A/D converters? Is the quality the same? - If you have time to answer, that would be great, Thanks, Peter.
Hi Peter, as far as I am aware there are different implementations of 32 bit float and the A/D converters.
The Dual A/D Converters of the Zoom F6 are something quite special from all I know and the Zoom F2 does not have the same offering. The same goes for the Tentacle Track E (also doe snot have Dual A/D Converters). The F2 however still sounds great from all the tests I have seen though.
@@ChrisSpiegl Hey Chris - Thanks for coming back to me with that very informative response. Peter.
@@PeterMossUkulele You're very welcome 🌸.
Gain still needs to be set imho. It affects noise quantity in a recording and that cannot be removed easily later. Again what is recorded and where has large effects on these things too. It's still true that the lowest gain to get the sound you need is best. Gain levels can be increased in post without any *more* noise being created. Not so during original recording where increased Gain can allow much more noise into the recording.
Yet 32float does mostly remove the issue of clipping during recording.
Question. When using 32- bit float it’s said you don’t really have to worry about setting your gain because you can always adjust it in post. However, with 32-bit float you have over -700 db capacity and over +700 db capacity. How do you prevent the noise when increasing the really low audio levels in post since it picks up a lot of room noise?
Onkel Spiegl, it took me a minute to digest all those technical information. its a loooooot . but very useful. i would love to see an actual test on the field just so we can have a better visual understanding.
Thanks, I may try to present this information in a different format in the future. Specifically, what would you like to see demonstrated?
great information. well done. thanks
Integer Bit depth doesn't change accuracy with level, only dynamic range
For floating it changes.
awesome video, thx!
Thank you 🌸.
Very useful and informative video!
Thank you, I appreciate this very much.
Also happy you found it. Cheers.
When I lower the gain in either Audacity 3.0.2 (confirmed can edit 32bit float) or AudioDirector 11, it just flattens all the peaks to one equal level. Using a Rode VideoMic Pro+ with a Zoom F2 BT. I specifically got this combo since I record very loud concerts. Any suggestions? I see in your video you just adjust the gain and it works as expected. Thank you!
That sounds like you are over driving the microphone so it’s already clipping Inside the mic and then that signal is recorded to the 32bit file.
Try lowering the gain in the VideoMic Pro+ and maybe additionally engage the -20db pad and then as a third possibility also engage the safety track so you have another even less loud channel.
Let me know if this does help and we can look into if further if it does not. 👍
@@ChrisSpiegl Thank you for the reply. My Rode mic was set to 0db. For loud shows I'll start recording at the -10db and enabling the backup track, but it's strange that the rode mic clipped when the onboard camera mic handled the audio fine. Maybe it auto lowered the gain. I'm new to this but it's strange that a $300 mic couldn't handle a loud concert. The specs say it can handle 133db. I was thinking maybe my onboard audio card when editing in post? Both editing softwares I'm using recognize the file type as 32bit float and 48k hz. This is a tricky one since there are so many possibilities. Thank you for any ideas!
@@taylorkirk74 you’re welcome. The issue with this mic is that it is very much prone to clipping internally. If you bring it up close to your mouth for example you immediately see the red clipping thing coming on. The 133dB range may very well be in combination with the -10 or -20 db pad enabled. And please kite the gain ring does not do much in terms of the clipping.
If you record in 32b float (as I always do), once you're in the ballpark of where your levels should be at, would it be "safe" to save those new leveled files to 24 bit for use in the rest of the post-processing chain?
I've always been "worried" that maybe, even if the EQ/Comp/Limiter would maybe only affect maximum 12-18 dB changes, maybe I still need those source 32 bit float in all the post-process until I bounce to a final product (44.1 at 16 or 24 if FLAC or whatever lossless)
I may not be the best to answer this as I do not necessarily have all the depth knowledge here. But I personally would take the 32bit float file and normalize/loudness normalize into a 24bit range and work with that in the workflow from there onward. However, there is no real reason not to work with 32bit float files in post processing since that is just a means of giving the programs more room to play with.
Again, just my understanding, which may be wrong.
does protools work with 32
Very interesting
I think so too! 👍
Great.
Thank you, I appreciate your comment 🌸.
German? Haha
WHat's up 🙈.